Magdalena Tokaj, Kornblit & Partners Executive Search: If you were to meet your younger self – say, at twenty-five – what advice would you give him?

Wojciech Sobieraj Chairman of the Supervisory Board of UniCredit NV/SA and President of Vodeno: I would tell him not to be afraid. It’s not that I ever lacked courage, but I do think I was sometimes too cautious. I would also urge him to pursue his most ambitious ideas – the ones that can do good and inspire others. Those two points would be the core advice I would give myself.

MT: What, if anything, would you choose not to do again?

Wojciech Sobieraj: For example, I stayed in one workplace longer than I should have, and at times I held back on ideas until it was already too late. I remained at Alior for too long, having set myself the goal of staying through the entire ownership-change process. The investors were satisfied and management continuity was ensured, but time kept passing. I now see the period from 2015 to the beginning of Covid, when the European fintech landscape was rapidly developing, as partly wasted. Had I followed that advice back then, I would have acted more boldly.

Similarly, while managing a listed company and focusing on quarterly results, I should have pushed back harder against investors. I should have said: we are entering new markets, developing, and investing. Quarterly results reflect only the last three months; we are building the future through international expansion or product expansion. We had many of the same cards in our hands that Revolut had in 2013. They had greater funding, yes, but there was nothing stopping us from competing with a broader offering. Quarterly results might have been weaker in the short term, but the long-term value would have been far greater. In that scenario, I believe we could have raised more capital for acquisitions, expansion, and the development of new products à la Revolut.

MT: We have a super innovative start-up product. But this breakthrough fintech idea does not reach the phase of commercialization and scaling. What held it back: investor constraints, strategic misjudgments, internal management challenges, or a broader underestimation of its potential?

Wojciech Sobieraj: This is a difficult question for me. On the one hand, as a natural optimist, I would like to say that everything depends on management and the quality of the idea. Unfortunately, that is not entirely true, especially in an industry as closely tied to financial services.

In my view, this stems from the fact that banking is fundamentally built on three pillars: deposits and investments, lending, and payments. Everything else revolves around it. Payments are a pure scale business, and scale means that a small number of players with strong ideas end up absorbing the rest, either through faster growth or M&A. Deposits and investments follow a similar pattern. That leaves lending. What truly differentiates fintech start-ups here is the need for a strong capital base. This may sound pessimistic, but in fintech, without a clear path to financing credit activity or achieving broad scalability, even the best idea is not enough. Even with excellent credit risk methodology the market will ultimately say: you are judged not by your analytic models, but by the behavior of your credit portfolio. And that can only be proven with your own capital.

What I am saying is that the challenge is greater than it appears. It is no coincidence that only a handful of fintechs have managed to scale across Europe, while many others continue to struggle.

MT: To what extent did regulatory pressures within the industry play a role?

Wojciech Sobieraj: Bankers and fintech professionals like to complain that everything is the regulator’s fault. But first of all, the regulator is essential. And second, how does a regulated financial market really compare to what we see in sectors like telecoms or pharmaceuticals? In my view, much of this is just upset bankers looking for someone to blame. Seriously, would we actually want to operate in an unregulated industry? That would be an absurd. I understand where this frustration comes from: after the 2008 financial crisis, regulatory requirements were tightened, and in some areas this can feel like overregulation.

Has overregulation occurred? Probably yes. Some post-crisis rules may have gone too far. Today, we can see movement in the opposite direction, particularly in the United States, and to some extent in Europe as well. Europe’s changes tend to come more slowly, which gives American banks a strategic advantage. Still, making regulation the central issue makes little sense. From the perspective of technological development, it is actually a good thing that certain areas are regulated. I would much rather have regulation than regret later that it was missing. This applies both to market access, because not every player should be allowed in, and to oversight of the entire activity. Consider the growing share of instant payments. Do we really want all payments to be instant, available to anyone, anywhere? If something goes wrong, where and how would we trace the problem?

Another regulatory challenge that needs to be addressed is regulatory arbitrage. If we operate within the European market, regulations should be consistent across all countries. That is different from having the same rules interpreted differently. Today, some companies benefit simply because they operate under more favorable legal frameworks.

What I miss the most in our market is a sandbox. The environment where regulators and market participants can test solutions together, jointly develop ideas and observe how they work in practice before drawing conclusions.

What I miss the most in our market is a sandbox. The environment where regulators and market participants can test solutions together, jointly develop ideas and observe how they work in practice before drawing conclusions. I know there are plans in this direction, but they should move faster and be more ambitious. Lithuania is the best example: it is no coincidence that many European fintechs are based there. The same is true for the Benelux countries. Some regulators are far more open to innovation in payments, crypto, or investment products. The lack of a strong Polish fintech and the limited pace of financial innovation should give us all pause. Especially when we consider the solid technological base we already have and how open to new technologies and all novelties our society is.

MT: Poland is a large European market as well.

Wojciech Sobieraj: Indeed, which makes it all the more clear that there is a room for a sandbox, a room to test customer behavior at scale. Consumers themselves are ready for new solutions. We are a market where Żabka Nano can roll out self-service stores, yet we still cannot test new blockchain-based payment solutions?

Our domestic financial sector is not developing as fast as it should. With regard to GDP, it ought to be at least twice its current size. We tend to forget that our economy itself is roughly twice as large as it was a dozen years ago. More than once, we allowed ourselves to be overtaken and others captured the benefits. Some things did work out in our favor, but too many opportunities slipped through our fingers.

MT: In your opinion, does anything truly deserve to be called a breakthrough?

Wojciech Sobieraj: Take BLIK, for example. From a purely technological standpoint, it’s not a groundbreaking invention, others were faster, and the technology itself isn’t particularly spectacular. What makes BLIK exceptional is that it isn’t a standalone app. It’s embedded directly into banking applications, and that makes it a masterpiece. It anchors customers to their banks. What’s more, BLIK’s potential is far greater than how it’s currently used. There is still enormous room for expansion, both in Poland and internationally, and to build a wide range of additional services around it.

Another real breakthrough was placing banks at the center of social trust. Trusted Profiles, which eliminate the need to visit government offices, are an incredibly powerful solution. Now it is time for deeper integration with mObywatel. Just as BLIK alone isn’t a breakthrough, mObywatel on its own isn’t either. But together, they could unlock an entirely new scale of possibilities.

One more example: if electronic invoicing were introduced and properly connected with banks, it could significantly reduce payment backlogs and make access to financing much easier for SME.

There are also many important developments we barely notice. Today, Poles don’t think about which ATM to use, because most ATMs are free. That wasn’t always the case. Until relatively recently, access to cash was a competitive area. These changes go unnoticed, but they matter.

MT: And where did the sector fail?

Wojciech Sobieraj: Some things were simply done wrong. One major area that has been neglected is investing. Today, when you open Trade Republic, Robinhood, or Revolut, you see the gap between where the world is and where we are.

As Poles, we live in two different worlds. We travel, study, and work internationally – but we invest locally. Not only do we invest very little in relation to our households’ financial potential, but we also stick to the simplest domestic products. Are government bonds really all we can afford?

On the one hand, we have BLIK and instant payments operating in real time. On the other, try sending money abroad. It’s hard to believe you’re dealing with a leading EU economy. These capabilities should be far better and much faster.

Look at what instant payments linked to digital identity have achieved in India. Or Brazil, with PIX essentially a copy-and-paste of BLIK. But on steroids and with a whole range of services around payments.

My biggest frustration, however, is this: Polish banks are good only in Poland. That mindset may make sense for massive economies like Germany or the UK, where domestic markets are large enough. But Italy, France, Spain, Hungary, or Austria – all think internationally. We pretend we’re the second Germany. We’re not. And we’re not seriously pursuing international expansion either. Foreign expansion is especially difficult when banks are already foreign-owned. That’s why I believed that when some Polish banks came under state treasury control, we’d finally push beyond Poland more decisively. Instead, progress has been weak. Honestly, I don’t know why.

MT: What needs to happen to unlock this potential?

Wojciech Sobieraj: There is far too little cooperation between banks. The culture of coopetition, meaning cooperating and competing at the same time is not natural to us. We failed to learn this lesson from telecoms. Telecom operators fiercely compete for customers, but where competition makes no sense – like BTS – they cooperate and share infrastructure.

In banking, we compete everywhere, unnecessarily. Why does everyone need to build their own cloud, their own data lake, their own transaction monitoring systems? This offers zero competitive advantage and drains resources that could be used for innovation. Banks could do much more together. Of course, someone will immediately say, “But a joint venture means paying VAT” etc. Seriously? With today’s technology, costs can be reduced two- or threefold, not by 20%. The time for cooperation must be back.

MT: Are major transformations still ahead for the sector?

Wojciech Sobieraj: Absolutely. Everyone talks about consolidation, and it will happen. But sooner or later it will be technology costs that make it better to merge.

MT: Is Erste Bank’s entry just business as usual, or a real signal to the market?

Wojciech Sobieraj: From a transactional perspective, it’s not extraordinary, except for the scale and speed, which deserve great respect. But strategically, it sent a very strong signal: anyone considering buying or selling in Poland now knows that this market is open again.

MT: Looking ahead, what are your priorities and plans for the near future?

Wojciech Sobieraj: International expansion and a return to the Polish market in corporate and investment banking – something I didn’t previously have the chance to do, and now do with great enthusiasm. We’re building an app that combines the best fintech functionalities with the solidity and stability of a major European bank. No one has tried this mix before. I haven’t seen another case where a leading European bank enters a market essentially as a start-up and builds everything from scratch.

No one has tried this mix before. I haven’t seen another case where a leading European bank enters a market essentially as a start-up and builds everything from scratch.

MT: What is it like to return to a large corporate structure?

Wojciech Sobieraj: I hadn’t worked in a corporation since 2005. Nearly twenty years of my own businesses and start-ups. Now I’m combining both worlds. There are corporate elements I’ll still need to get used to, but I have the enthusiasm to create something new.

MT: When it comes to building strong teams, which skills or profiles do you believe are most lacking in today’s financial sector?

Wojciech Sobieraj:

The first major gap is generational. My generation is more comfortable with risk, experimentation, and learning from mistakes. Younger generations approach this differently. It’s not a criticism, just an observation.

The second factor is the rapid shift toward AI. The CEO of Shopify put it very straight: I’ll only hire someone if they can prove AI can’t do the job. That’s a cold shower for all of us.

The third is the demand for people who combine technology with market and financial knowledge. Today, we usually get one or the other. This is a legacy of the old model: business had an idea, IT executed it, and then the implementation came. That world is gone. I don’t believe in agile management. I believe in interdisciplinary, product-oriented teams, ideally built with individuals, who understand both business and technology. Today, whether you work in audit, sales, or risk, if you can’t use technology, you don’t belong in banking. You might survive for a few more years, but you won’t build a career.

MT: Will the digital native generation, which has now entered the market, fill this gap?

Wojciech Sobieraj: They will not be able to fill it, because there simply aren’t enough of them. The foundations haven’t changed. Education is still divided into humanities and sciences. I was lucky: I studied both Latin and calculus. It was painful at the time, but it paid off throughout my life.

Our education system categorizes people too early. That model worked in the past; today, its usefulness is fading. Interdisciplinary schools are still the exception. In modern business, a basic understanding of IT is essential, and it’s sorely lacking. But engineering skills alone, without business knowledge, general education, or sociology, are just incomplete.

MT: How far will AI go in finance?

Wojciech Sobieraj: AI will revolutionize the industry. The scope is immense, because banking is full of repetitive, well-defined processes, far more than most sectors. We’re currently working on over a dozen AI projects. I have been in the market for a long time, I’ve always been close to innovation, but what’s happening now is unprecedented. This is a breakthrough.

It’s only a matter of time before we talk to banks and they execute our commands. Once customers accept this – and I’m certain they will- everything will change. Everyone will have a universal personal agent, with banking woven into it. Today, AI reminds me to take out the trash, buys tickets, or recommends movies. Why wouldn’t it tell me where to place a three-month investment deposit when I have an extra 5,000 zlotys? That’s far easier than recommending a movie.

Anyone who thinks AI will somehow skip banking is – putting it very politely- wrong. Banking will be among the first industries transformed by AI. Because banking is easy to codify.

MT: Will physical bank branches disappear along with technological and demographic change?

Wojciech Sobieraj: There will be far fewer of them. Fifteen years ago, to make our presence felt in the market, we run a product promotion called Kill Bill – we carried out transactions free of charge for everyone that visit our branch. One and a half million customers showed up. That was the lowest acquisition cost in my entire banking career. Today, believing that routine transactions will stay in branches is an aberration. On the other hand, the part related to iteration, advisory services, and complex matters will grow instead. The bar for bankers in branches will be set very high. They will need to be smarter than ChatGPT.

The bar for bankers in branches will be set very high. They will need to be smarter than ChatGPT.

As reality becomes more complex, the need for trusted human guidance grows. You open a fintech app and see dozens of ETFs and investment options. So you’ll want to talk to someone you trust, someone who gives you confidence with real expertise or someone who will create portfolios for you that will actively structure your investments, as we do.

MT: It is good to know that for some time, people will still matter.

Wojciech Sobieraj: Absolutely. Humans in the process will matter even more, because they’ll handle only the most complex issues. Seeking a second opinion is very important for people. We want reassurance from an expert that we have not missed anything. Just like 70% of patients consult Doctor Google before seeing a physician, but still want professional confirmation. Why should they act differently as for finance? If I were a pessimist, I’d say we’ll see this within five years. But I think it will happen much sooner.

MT: Thank you very much for the conversation.

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